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Friday, July 13, 2007
ECT A Feminist Issue?
Reclusive Leftist (via Feministing):
ECT belongs with that class of psychiatric treatments that includes lobotomies, ice-baths, and insulin shock, all of which certainly have a number of effects on patients, though curing illness isn’t one of them. What all of these treatments do (if we can even dignify them with the word “treatment”) is basically shatter the human organism. It’s like curing a headache by cutting off someone’s head. Lobotomies destroy the brain, insulin shock causes brain and other physical damage, ice-baths terrorize people, and ECT does it all: brain damage, emotional terror, physical harm.
So why do some doctors keep giving shock treatments? For the same reason that doctors kept giving lobotomies and inducing insulin comas: if you can’t cure someone’s headache, at least you can cut off her head.
I knew all that, but what I didn’t know was this singular, terrifying fact which I now call to your attention:
Throughout the history of ECT, one statistic remains constant: Women are subjected to electroshock two to three times as often as men.
I'm not sure what to make of all this, quite frankly. My late SIL had been committed a number of years ago and ECT was part of her treatment before she was released. I only know a little bit about her experiences of it, which certainly weren't all that pleasant, but I do know that when she was back out in the world she was definitely better.
This makes me curious as to whether that 2-3 times statistic is unique to ECT, or whether women are just more likely to be committed involuntarily, or what. Is there a gender-based asymmetry in schizophrenia? I guess I need to learn more.
ntodd
July 13, 2007 in Life Is A Chick Flick | Permalink
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Comments
correct me if i'm wrong -- i thought ect was reserved these days for intractable depression.
schizophrenia is a pretty different disease altogether, n'est-ce pas?
Posted by: whaleshaman | Jul 13, 2007 12:58:04 PM
hey NTodd
BiPolar Disorder I equally distributed (Manic Episodes or Mixed episodes)
Bipolar II - (major depressive episodes) More common in women
Major Depression - More common in women
This may account for more women recieving ECT, along with the fact that women are more likely than men to seek treatment, overall.
Regarding Schizophrenia. Believed that it is equally distributed (men/women) but the presentation (age, syptoms) varies across sexes. Males present in early 20's, females in late 20's early 30's. Mood disorder common in females, again this may account for the higher rate of ECT with females.
hope this was helpful
Posted by: zoe | Jul 13, 2007 1:20:55 PM
whaleshaman - Depends:
"Electroconvulsive Therapy has received some bad press as a result of what the
treatment used to be. Yet "ECT has a higher success rate for severe
depression than any other form of treatment." It has also been shown to be
an effective form of treatment for schizophrenia accompanied by catatonia,
extreme depression, mania, or other affective components."
zoe - thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for. All of it.
Posted by: NTodd | Jul 13, 2007 1:25:17 PM
Sometimes people feel a whole lot better after they've had a siezure.
Posted by: shrimplate | Jul 13, 2007 1:41:30 PM
ECT today is nothing like it was 20 years ago - a lower level of electricity for a shorter period of time, and better relaxants so the thrashing about is now quite minimal. My brother has had big problems with depression, and ECT's been a huge help. At his point he's on a sort of maintenance level dose and receives one about every five weeks. Reclusive Leftist has this one wrong - it can be a wonderful treatment. Although the first two or three treatments were done when he was an inpatient, he's had to have a lot more, which he now gets as an outpatient.
A huge problem with them is that insurance companies hate to pay for them, and thus they are not as easily available as they should be. They are also not a money-maker for big Pharma, so the research on them is still pretty lousy. (I thought that their uselessness in treating schizophrenia was established long ago?)
Posted by: bbbustard | Jul 13, 2007 3:22:38 PM
K was officially schizoaffective, not schizophrenic - so she had some aspects of both the schizophrenia and of bipolar I. One of the few times we discussed what she recalled of her commitment and treatment, she mentioned the ECT having been scary but really effective. They had her at too high a level the first few times, but after that she got some excellent results from it. It did definitely have a negative impact on her short-term memory, but her long-term recall never suffered.
Zoe's breakdown is spot-on from what I've encountered with NAMI and personal research. Makes sense, when you look at the numbers of women vs. men who 1) suffer from mental illness AND 2) seek or forcibly receive treatment.
Posted by: Stefanie | Jul 13, 2007 6:05:20 PM
My brother's short term memory often suffers after a treatment. The day after ECT he'll sometimes forget how to drive home from the gas station. But without the ECT he'd not have left the house to go to the gas station. He wouldn't have left his room. And on the second day after, he remembers all the directions. He's also never been afraid of ECT - he was hurting enough that he would have grabbed onto anything that held out a sliver of hope. A disclaimer: I do not work for Con Ed, nor do I receive remuneration from any purveyor of electricity - I have no stake in coal, oil, gas, nuclear, windmills etc etc
I do know that ECT is really, really great - for the right patient.
Posted by: bbbustard | Jul 13, 2007 8:13:30 PM
I think there is still a bias against women that dates back to, well...forever.
It's that "hysterical" label that men and physicians have put on women when they have legitimate complaints.
Go to your library and do some searches on microfilm of old newspapers from the mid-late 1800's to the late 1930's and check out all of the "remedies" for women. Most were drug or alcohol containing.
Indeed - mother's little helper - Rolling Stones. Women just need to calm the fuck down and stop bothering us men.
Posted by: moistened bink | Jul 13, 2007 9:28:38 PM
No, this is all wrong. Please, NTodd, go back to Violet's place and read the paper she links to. Or just read the thread, if time is an issue, there's plenty in the thread too, as a stepping off point, opening up new ways of thinking.
But this here, these comments, NAMI, the justifications, they're party line, straight up. I would go on but I'm the one who started this and have been entrenched in argument with naive and stubborn liberals the last 2 days and am spent.
Please go back and read the Reclusive Leftist thread for the truth.
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=614
(Sorry this is my first comment here, I'm not a stranger to this blog, just quiet reader.)
Thank you for covering this. Please do your work.
Posted by: flawedplan | Jul 14, 2007 4:30:03 AM
Sorry, but soon as you say NAMI is party line, I get off the bus. From where I sit, it's a great organization that helped my ex-wife through some terrible pain. And to discount the personal experiences of the people here doesn't help the case.
Posted by: NTodd | Jul 14, 2007 10:45:51 AM
The mental health community does not take ECT lightly. You have to have a documented history of depression and diagnosis. Several of my friends have been greatly helped by ECT. I can think of one person who hated it. Another person had ECT years ago and then a couple of more treatments in recent years and she said the process has improved from prior eras. Her memory loss was an aggravation at first, but since she had it two years ago, her memory is greatly improved (she is a college professor).
People who suffer severe depression often want ECT because they've seen how effective it has been for some people. "Normal" people have no idea of the actual physical pain caused by depression. You would do almost anything, including suicide, to escape it.
Several of the people I've mentioned had made attempts at suicide over the years and they were at the end of their ropes. I'm so glad to still them around and their moods and dispositions are so much better.
Posted by: Sandy-LA 90034 | Jul 14, 2007 2:03:53 PM
Ah, I see. I seem to have mistaken your post for more than armchair musing. If only patients had the luxury to get off the bus.
Posted by: flawedplan | Jul 14, 2007 4:45:49 PM
Ah, I see. You don't really care that there are people here who have contradictory experiences with ECT and NAMI. If only the patients had the luxury of avoiding treatments that work.
Posted by: NTodd | Jul 14, 2007 5:14:35 PM
right on, NTodd
Posted by: zoe | Jul 14, 2007 8:33:07 PM
It was the ideas I discounted, not anyone's experience. How can you discount experience? My point is that good outcomes are not the only experience. Everyone's story matters, and you may have to dig for the horrible outcomes. And now we have this woman being forced to undergo a series of ECT over her pleas and objections, and as a frontline treatment, not as a last resort. That this is outrageous and worth fighting I hope we can agree on. The onslaught of emails could make a difference and I appreciate you linking to the story. That is all.
Oh one more, regarding the direction national NAMI has taken, that too may take some digging. I talk to Texas NAMI rank and file regularly and they're not the problem. They're well-meaning advocates who do their best in spite of NAMI leadership.
Posted by: flawedplan | Jul 15, 2007 2:55:17 AM
Back in the day, before the DSM was updated, lobotomies and electro-schock were common treatments for gays, particularly the ones from well-to-do families who would not have such a "stain" on their good names.
Thousands of lives were destroyed.
Psychiatrists can kiss my flabby gay ass.
Posted by: Uncle Smokes | Jul 15, 2007 5:53:04 PM
flawed - This instance is indeed a problem because the court is not listening and something should be done. My point was that I wasn't sure if this meant ECT is bad or a feminist issue. At this point I'm convinced it is neither, and the language used over there to sway me is deliberately hyperbolic, inflammatory and completely mischaracterizes ECT as it is generally used today. RL could easily have made a case that this is a court stomping on A PERSON'S rights, but instead tried to make ECT out to be a bogey man and illegitimately attempted to tie this to feminism. In this case, it's about respect for humanity. Period.
Smokes - yup, and don't forget hormone treatments and such. One of my heroes, Alan Turing, had his life destroyed by such things back in the 50s after being PROSECUTED (and persecuted) for being gay. And while I've distrusted psychiatrists (and to a lesser extent, NTodd's Pa's Wife's fellow psychologists), I have to say that without them, I'd most likely be dead.
Posted by: NTodd | Jul 15, 2007 7:06:37 PM
Buy me stuff off my 
