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Saturday, April 14, 2007

Firewall Fairy Is A Nappy Ho

Rich:

It’s possible that the only people in this whole sorry story who are not hypocrites are the Rutgers teammates and their coach, C. Vivian Stringer. And perhaps even Don Imus himself, who, while talking way too much about black people he has known and ill children he has helped, took full responsibility for his own catastrophic remarks and didn’t try to blame the ensuing media lynching on the press, bloggers or YouTube.

No, it's not possible and if you think Imus took full responsibility and didn't try to blame anybody for his "lynching", then you aren't paying attention, you crack-smoking honky.

ntodd

[Update: Atrios is also a nappy ho for never linking to me.]

['nother update: Molly Ivors (not The Lout) has an excellent post on this over at Whiskey Fire.]

April 15, 2007
Op-Ed Columnist
Everybody Hates Don Imus
By FRANK RICH

FAMILIAR as I am with the warp speed of media, I was still taken aback by the velocity of Don Imus’s fall after he uttered an indefensible racist and sexist slur about the Rutgers women’s basketball team. Even in that short span, there’s been an astounding display of hypocrisy, sanctimony and self-congratulation from nearly every side of the debate, starting with Al Sharpton, who has yet to apologize for his leading role in the Tawana Brawley case, the 1980s racial melee prompted by unproven charges much like those that soiled the Duke lacrosse players.

It’s possible that the only people in this whole sorry story who are not hypocrites are the Rutgers teammates and their coach, C. Vivian Stringer. And perhaps even Don Imus himself, who, while talking way too much about black people he has known and ill children he has helped, took full responsibility for his own catastrophic remarks and didn’t try to blame the ensuing media lynching on the press, bloggers or YouTube. Unlike Mel Gibson, Michael Richards and Isaiah Washington, to take just three entertainers who have recently delivered loud religious, racial or sexual slurs, Imus didn’t hire a P.R. crisis manager and ostentatiously enter rehab or undergo psychiatric counseling. “I dished it out for a long time,” he said on his show last week, “and now it’s my time to take it.”

Among the hypocrites surrounding Imus, I’ll include myself. I’ve been a guest on his show many times since he first invited me in the early 1990s, when I was a theater critic. I’ve almost always considered him among the smarter and more authentic conversationalists I’ve encountered as an interviewee. As a book author, I could always use the publicity.

Of course I was aware of many of his obnoxious comments about minority groups, including my own, Jews. Sometimes he aimed invective at me personally. I wasn’t seriously bothered by much of it, even when it was unfunny or made me wince, because I saw him as equally offensive to everyone. The show’s crudest interludes struck me as burlesque.

I do not know Imus off the air and have no idea whether he is a good person, any more than I know whether Jerry Lewis, another entertainer who raises millions for sick children, is a good person. But as a listener and sometime guest, I didn’t judge Imus to be a bigot. Perhaps I felt this way in part because Imus vehemently inveighed against racism in real life, most recently in decrying the political ads in last year’s Senate campaign linking a black Tennessee congressman, Harold Ford, to white women. Perhaps I gave Imus a pass because the insults were almost always aimed at people in the public eye, whether politicians, celebrities or journalists — targets with the forums to defend themselves.

And perhaps I was kidding myself. What Imus said about the Rutgers team landed differently, not least because his slur was aimed at young women who had no standing in the world of celebrity, and who had done nothing in public except behave as exemplary student athletes. The spectacle of a media star verbally assaulting them, and with a creepy, dismissive laugh, as if the whole thing were merely a disposable joke, was ugly. You couldn’t watch it without feeling that some kind of crime had been committed. That was true even before the world met his victims. So while I still don’t know whether Imus is a bigot, there was an inhuman contempt in the moment that sounded like hate to me. You can see it and hear it in the video clip in a way that isn’t conveyed by his words alone.

Does that mean he should be silenced? The Rutgers team pointedly never asked for that, and I don’t think the punishment fits the crime. First, as a longtime Imus listener rather than someone who tuned in for the first time last week, I heard not only hate in his wisecrack but also honesty in his repeated vows to learn from it. Second, as a free-speech near-absolutist, I don’t believe that even Mel Gibson, to me an unambiguous anti-Semite, should be deprived of his right to say whatever the hell he wants to say. The answer to his free speech is more free speech — mine and yours. Let Bill O’Reilly talk about “wetbacks” or Rush Limbaugh accuse Michael J. Fox of exaggerating his Parkinson’s symptoms, and let the rest of us answer back.

Liberals are kidding themselves if they think the Imus firing won’t have a potentially chilling effect on comics who push the line. Let’s not forget that Bill Maher, an Imus defender last week, was dropped by FedEx, Sears, ABC affiliates and eventually ABC itself after he broke the P.C. code of 9/11. Conservatives are kidding themselves if they think the Imus execution won’t impede Ann Coulter’s nasty invective on the public airwaves. As Al Franken pointed out to Larry King on Wednesday night, CNN harbors Glenn Beck, who has insinuated that the first Muslim congressman, Keith Ellison of Minnesota, is a terrorist (and who has also declared that “faggot” is nothing more than “a naughty name”). Will Time Warner and its advertisers be called to account? Already in the Imus aftermath, the born-again blogger Tom DeLay has called for the firing of Rosie O’Donnell because of her “hateful” views on Chinese-Americans, conservative Christians and President Bush.

That said, corporations, whether television or radio networks or movie studios or commercial sponsors, are free to edit or cancel any content. No one has an inalienable right to be broadcast or published or given a movie or music contract. Whether MSNBC and CBS acted out of genuine principle or economic necessity is a debate already raging. Just as Imus’s show defied easy political definition — he has both kissed up to Dick Cheney as a guest and called him a war criminal — so does the chatter about what happened over the past week. MSNBC, forever unsure of its identity, seems to have found a new calling by turning that debate into a running series, and I say, go for it.

The biggest cliché of the debate so far is the constant reiteration that this will be a moment for a national “conversation” about race and sex and culture. Do people really want to have this conversation, or just talk about having it? If they really want to, it means we have to ask ourselves why this debacle has given permission to talking heads on television to repeat Imus’s offensive words so insistently that cable news could hardly take time out to note the shocking bombing in the Baghdad Green Zone. Some even upped the ante: Donna Brazile managed to drag “jigaboo” into Wolf Blitzer’s sedate “Situation Room” on CNN.

If we really want to have this conversation, it also means we have to have a nonposturing talk about hip-hop lyrics, “Borat,” “South Park” and maybe Larry David, too. As James Poniewozik pointed out in his smart cover article for Time last week, an important question emerged from an Imus on-air soliloquy as he tried to defend himself: “This phrase that I use, it originated in the black community. That didn’t give me a right to use it, but that’s where it originated. Who calls who that and why? We need to know that. I need to know that.”

My 22-year-old son, a humor writer who finds Imus an anachronistic and unfunny throwback to the racial-insult humor of the Frank Sinatra-Sammy Davis Jr. Rat Pack ilk, raises a complementary issue. He argues that when Sacha Baron Cohen makes fun of Jews and gays, he can do so because he’s not doing it as himself but as a fictional character. But try telling that to the Anti-Defamation League, which criticized Mr. Baron Cohen, an observant Jew, for making sport of a real country (Kazakhstan) and worried that the “Borat” audience “may not always be sophisticated enough to get the joke, and that some may even find it reinforcing their bigotry.”

So if we really want to have this national “conversation” about race and culture and all the rest of it that everyone keeps telling us that this incident has prompted, let’s get it on, no holds barred. And the fewer moralizing pundits and politicians, the better. Hillary Clinton, an Imus denouncer who has also called for federal regulation of violent television and video games, counts among her Hollywood fat cats Haim Saban, who made his fortune from “Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.”

Listening to Les Moonves of CBS speak with such apparent sincerity of how his network was helping to change the culture by firing Imus, I couldn’t help but remember that one of CBS’s own cultural gifts to America has been “Big Brother,” the reality game show that cloisters a dozen or so strangers in a house for weeks to see how they get along. Maybe Mr. Moonves could put his prime-time schedule where his mouth is and stop milking that format merely for the fun of humiliation, voyeurism and sexual high jinks. If locking Imus and his team in a house with Coach Stringer and her team 24/7 isn’t must-see TV that moves this conversation forward, then I don’t know what is.

April 14, 2007 in Firewall Fairy | Permalink

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Comments

I read this article and talked of it with my friends on EbonyFriends.com . We all think you did a good job, your view is real and logical.

Posted by: Daniel | Apr 15, 2007 3:24:49 AM

What the hell is that Power Ranger reference supposed to mean? Bugs Bunny cartoons have more credible violence than the Power Rangers.

Posted by: Tomm | Apr 15, 2007 9:50:06 AM

Well, ok. But I think it IS important to remind Americans that in 1998 Don Imus was interviewed by 60 Minutes, and he laughingly admitted that his sidekick Bernard McGuirk was hired to do *n*gger jokes.* Many of us DO wonder how people like you, Russert, Gregory---all the media *in crowd white boys* didn*t even think such an arrogant and offensive statement would give you pause when you sold your books on his program. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson aren*t responsible for that. YOU are. With all due respect.

Posted by: Mary | Apr 15, 2007 10:02:46 AM

Mr.Rich, as usual, a well structured argument, elegantly stated...

...irrespective of snarky and sleazy ad hominems by the OP (rather ironic, considering the subject matter), you are absolutely correct, Frank, in all your assumptions and conclusions.

Posted by: Dave | Apr 15, 2007 10:18:16 AM

I can forgive Imus for just abou tanything except that stupid cowbly hat worn indoors in NY...the world would be much better if we killed all the people who wear funny hats

Posted by: Joseph Hill | Apr 15, 2007 10:18:43 AM

Well, I guess I fall into the Wolcott camp when it comes to my feelings on the Imus issue, so I'm missing the wankerdom here.

And regarding this...

the world would be much better if we killed all the people who wear funny hats

What about Rob Pongi and that guy from 30 Rock? I would not want to know a world w/out those two guys.

Posted by: Kevin K. | Apr 15, 2007 10:45:58 AM

Atrios (linking to you) has named Rich his "wanker of the day"
I could criticize Rich on a few points but Atrios response and yours is just silly.
Hypocritically begging public forgiveness for your sins is silly too, but what else does anyone do?
You can't legislate sincerity. People are assholes, and I'd rather they be assholes in public than only in private.
And by the way Sacha Baron Cohen's hasn't done a jewish character yet. Why not? Why not do a settler on the west bank?

Posted by: seth edenbaum | Apr 15, 2007 10:54:28 AM

Am I replying to Don Imus, Frank Rich, NTodd or Atrios? Just checking.

I think Frank Rich was still trying to get his thoughts in order while he wrote this, because it is inconsistent from start to finish. Even though he writes, "No one has an inalienable right to be broadcast or published or given a movie or music contract," he doesn't seem to quite grasp that.

Maybe that's difficult for these guys. They get used to having their jobs. I guess that has happened to most of us at one time or other. Our work becomes routine, or at least habitual, and we start to imagine we have an inalienable right to continue doing it. After we've been fired, we might realize that we never had any such right.

That leads, I think, to their idea that Imus has been "silenced." I just don't get that, but maybe it's because I blog. Though I may toil in obscurity, certainly no one is silencing me. If not very many people read my stuff, it is obviously no one's fault but my own. I think that is obvious if you're a blogger, but not as obvious if you have had a major media spot.

"No one hears me any more because I got fired!"

Stop and consider the implication, Frank: you were heard every week because you were given that spot, not necessarily because you were so wonderful. You assume you were given that spot because you are wonderful, but that is true only in a very very narrow sense. If you get fired, aren't you still as wonderful as before?

"But now the world doesn't know how wonderful I am any more!"

It's like an addiction. I guess if I had been forcibly cut off from all internet access by the government, I would feel the same way. But the New York Times, or CBS, is not the government, although they kind of seem to be part of the government, don't they?

What this stupid incident really does is to highlight how screwed up our entire media system is. That system is completely, unfixably broken, and will eventuallly have to be rebuilt from the ground up, without the apparatus of huge corporations and their huge sponsors.

That arrangement, known as commercial radio and TV, more than anything else, has created the fairytale land of fantasy and lies that surround all of us who happen to live in DisneyAmericaLand.

Posted by: Ralph | Apr 15, 2007 10:57:11 AM

Dave - Rich is always articulate. Sometimes he's wrong. Like now.

seth - maybe Cohen hasn't done a Jewish character because that's, like, his own self and he'd rather mock other things like, say, antisemitism with the Running of the Jews. And that has what, exactly, to do with Imus' sexist, racist remarks and losing his job (and not his right to free speech)? Oh yeah: nothing.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 11:11:17 AM

Cohen does satire. He plays a stupid guy who makes fun of Jews and Gays. People are laughing at the stupid guy who is making fun as an absurd doofus. His schtick is more like a Charlie Chaplan- Great Dictator. Has anyone ever accused Chaplan of promoting Hitler by playing him in a movie?

Imus is not making fun of himself for poking fun at others expense. Imus is actually making fun of the groups, not himself or a character he plays. Imus is modeling bad behavior. That is a big difference.

Posted by: bakho | Apr 15, 2007 11:18:58 AM

Freedom of speech does not give you the right to a spot on a national radio show. Duh. I mean, I have some things I want to say, but MSNBC and CBS have never syndicated me. I'm not necessarily happy about that - :p - but I'm not whining about my free speech rights. Rich's posturing is pretty absurd, and I think he deserves his wanker award.

Posted by: Kalkin | Apr 15, 2007 11:19:41 AM

What the hell is that Power Ranger reference supposed to mean? Bugs Bunny cartoons have more credible violence than the Power Rangers.

This was uncharacteristically oblique for a Frank Rich column, which is usually clear as a mountain stream. But apparently the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers recently derided the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy headed hos," and yet Hillary Clinton has failed to denounce Hollywood fat cat Haim Saban. Oh, the hypocrisy!

And since you bring up Bugs Bunny: Hillary has so far been completely silent on the question of whether the character of Yosemite Sam is a racist caricature of Yosemite-Americans. But if we really want to have this national “conversation” about race and culture and all the rest of it that everyone keeps telling us that this incident has prompted, let’s get it on, no holds barred.

Ahem. OK, so Frank Rich may not quite deserve the honor of "wanker of the day." Fair enough. But that Hillary-Power Ranger sentence reads as if Rich decided to practice his Peggy Noonan impersonation and forgot to delete the thing before submitting.

Posted by: Michael Bérubé | Apr 15, 2007 11:20:18 AM

Atrios linked here? This place sucks!

Posted by: trifecta | Apr 15, 2007 11:24:18 AM

oooooh snap! frank sure nailed hillary with that power rangers link. what say you, hillary? will you return the money? will you demand that obama return his teletubbies money?

Posted by: arbitropia | Apr 15, 2007 11:33:47 AM

Shorter Frank Rich: Imus can't be a racist because all my buddies like him!

Posted by: Phoenix Woman | Apr 15, 2007 11:34:57 AM

Oh no, he deserves it and has bordered on wankery many, many times over the years. Rich has strong "against the grain" tendencies and appears to have no ideological groundings whatsoever, so you never know where he will end up on any given issue. All you know is that he will be surpassingly dismissive and condescending regarding his targets, all of whom are hypocrites, unlike Frank.

Everybody's loved him lately because he's been hell on Bush. As that becomes the norm, expect more wankery from Frank Rich.
.

Posted by: MikeB | Apr 15, 2007 11:35:27 AM

just for the record: atrios linked to this Frank Rich article, not to nTodd's place. The old roundabout.

Posted by: thersitz | Apr 15, 2007 11:41:54 AM

Imus still has a right to free speech, dumbass. He doesn't have a right to be paid by CBS for douchy racist invective though.

Posted by: beez | Apr 15, 2007 11:42:39 AM

Funny, Rich says he was "taken aback by the velocity of Don Imus' fall" and today on Timmeh Gwen Ifill says that the reason it took so long for Imus to be fired was b/c Imus' audience is primarily what Bobo calls "elites."

Posted by: res ipsa loquitur | Apr 15, 2007 11:42:49 AM

shorter frank rich -
Imus may be an obnoxious lout, but he's an equal opportunity obnoxious lout..

...and, yeah, as a book author, I could always use the publicity.

Posted by: al dole | Apr 15, 2007 12:01:58 PM

I think it's really neat that Atrios links to people who don't even have blogs.

Posted by: Thers | Apr 15, 2007 12:07:03 PM

A couple of weeks ago Don Imus was just part of the problem of prejudice in America, now he's a leading example of how it works.
Imus (apparently) is not the kind of racist or sexist who thinks minorities and women are so inferior that he has rights they do not. He's not the kind who would put on a hood and terrorize a community. He's the kind of racist who doesn't understand that denigrating people based on the color of their skin, or their gender, or their religion, is something that damages millions of individuals and society as a whole.

Now for most people who hold that notion, and, sadly, there are many, the damage they are capable of is quite small. They usually have the sense not to speak too loudly when around people they don't know well, and they certainly have enough sense to keep their mouth shut when members of their target group are present. But Imus is not most people.

When he was sitting in a room with his equally prejudiced pals the things he said didn't stop at the surrounding walls, they went out across the country. And because Imus, who is clearly a respected and respectable member of society, said those things, it made it all the easier for the people who heard him to think there was nothing wrong with what he said. If the things he said were so bad would people like John McCain, Hillary Clinton, Tim Russert, and Tom Oliphant hang around with him (and as some of his guests did, sometimes say those things too)?

The answer is, of course they would because they did. And does that make the things he said any less damaging? The answer to that is of course not, it actually makes them worse.

By all accounts, Imus never acted on the notions of inferiority of "others" that he perpetuated, but he helped make it easier for the people who heard him to think that way themselves.

Posted by: Lindsey | Apr 15, 2007 12:11:19 PM

It must be nice to sit in your sniper tower and fire at will.

Try driving an inner-city bus for awhile and see how far your political correctness gets you.

This shows two things

1) There is no civility in culture. Apologies offered should be accepted. Imus offered a sincere apology, what did that get him but more trouble?

2) Everybody is going to sharpen their own viewpoints. There will be no dialogue, only hardened feelings on all sides.

Imus is gone. The guy who had the microphone to tell truth to power in gone. The guy who amplified the racism in Harold Fords Senate race, and during Katrina is gone.

Do you really think this helps the black community?

Posted by: busdrivermike | Apr 15, 2007 12:20:31 PM

He used his platform on a nationally broadcast radio-TV show to call some of his stations'/sponsors' customers -- specific, real, actual innocent people, and not even adults -- whores, for no reason other than that they were black. What part of that doesn't Frank Rich understand?

Posted by: Alan in SF | Apr 15, 2007 12:50:51 PM

Actually, Atrios linked here, not to the article.

"Try driving an inner-city bus for a while and see how far your political correctness gets you."

Sounds like a better idea than calling your passengers "nappy headed hos". You give that a try, Mike, and let us know how it goes.

I don't quite get the understanding of the world that says the only way that we can have any radio announcer "speaking truth to power" is if we give that position to a racist pig. Seems like a false dilemma to me.

Posted by: Whispers | Apr 15, 2007 12:55:19 PM

Try driving an inner-city bus for awhile and see how far your political correctness gets you.

What. The. Fuck.

And for the record, I always loved the Pink Ranger.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 12:57:26 PM

If the things he said were so bad would people like John McCain, Hillary Clinton, Tim Russert, and Tom Oliphant hang around with him (and as some of his guests did, sometimes say those things too)?

Hillary Clinton is not a friend of Imus. Don't blame her for other people's sins.

Posted by: Gabriel | Apr 15, 2007 12:58:06 PM

"Apologies offered should be accepted."

Imus's apology WAS accepted, years ago. He even pledged, on air, to never denigrate blacks again.

"Imus offered a sincere apology, what did that get him but more trouble?"

Yes, Imus got more trouble, years later, when he broke his pledge.

Posted by: fracas_futile | Apr 15, 2007 1:04:06 PM

Lindsey, if someone offers an apology every year for doing the same thing -- at what point in time does the value of the apology expire and become meaningless?

Try being a black man walking down a street in middleAmericaville -- in other words, we still have a long way to go in this country before respect for all people is the status quo -- no matter what community you happen to be passing thru.

So the Iman's comments are okie do cuz he calls out the powerful once in awhile? You act like people willing to call out the powerful are few and far between. You suggest that people willing to call out the powerful should be given free passes to call whomever they wish racially laced sexist slurs -- a position that helps the american community how?

Besides, if Imus wants, he'll be working again in 6 months. Just dial up Savage or Limbaugh -- not while you are driving your bus thru some inner-city, though, please -- and he'll be back before the next Friedman Unit has come and gone.

Posted by: thersitz | Apr 15, 2007 1:08:48 PM

This has become so ridiculous! First of all, what is with all the middle age white dudes using way hyperbolic terms to describe this punishment? He's been "lynched", "silenced", received the "death penalty". I've seen serious media figures use all of these terms to describe this with a straight face each time. WTF? The guy is plenty alive, rich, and fully able to talk as far as I know, and write in as much as he is literate.

What is really wrong with this whole story is, and I agree in a sense that this offense really isn't that much worse than a lot of what Imus already did on a regular basis, Imus should never, ever have had this kind of a platform in the first place. Who decided to give this clown hours of airtime, on national TV, every day? He's been on TV pretty much more than anyone else in the past decade! Why? He's a "smart" conversationalist? Not from any of the evidence I've seen, and I've watched the show a number of times. He always struck me as a know-nothing blowhard surrounded by churlish yes-men with nothing interesting to say. People are just compelled by his personal narrative of having overcome drug and alcohol problems. Which is certainly laudable in and of itself, but does not justify giving a person like Imus a platform in the mainstream media like he had.

So, if his firing seems jarring or out of proportion to anyone, I would suggest that his presence was jarring and out of proportion in the first place.

Posted by: benj | Apr 15, 2007 1:20:05 PM

my apologies to Lindsey -- whose post is right on. My comments should have been directed to busDriverMike.

Posted by: thersitz | Apr 15, 2007 1:31:27 PM

Benj: your comment: "So, if his firing seems jarring or out of proportion to anyone, I would suggest that his presence was jarring and out of proportion in the first place" - is totally right.

What is funny about this "conversation" is that the subject of the "conversation" was itself a conversation - one that included not only the nappy hoes comment, but also a random jigaboos comment, immediately referenced to a Spike Lee movie - because white people can say racist things and be as shiny as Jesus Christ as long as they quickly reference some black source. If they can't remember one, and reference, say, David Duke, I guess they get demerits and have to do two weeks of charity-thon work for poor inner city children. Interesting how the whole sequence is sliced and diced, so Imus' chuckle about his sidekick's joke isn't included. Gee, I wonder why?

The amazing thing is how hard it is for the media to spit out the word "racism". I've never seen so many euphemisms chase your standard racist m.o. since Rodney King's assailants were given the thumbs up by an orange county jury.

Posted by: roger | Apr 15, 2007 1:36:03 PM

benj - yes, thats the truth that Imus should never ever have had that platform to begin with. Here's what I don't understand about the whole story:

The real impetus for taking Imus off MSNBC was Proctor and Gamble pulling its ads not just from the Imus show but from MSNBC's entire daytime rotation. P&G was the top MSNBC sponsor. The notion that MSNBC dropped Imus because of discussions among NBC employees is not credible; it was the advertisers. Now, P&G is a soap company, basically. Their target customer is NOT the Imus audience of older white men. Why did it take a blow-up like this one about the Rutgers team for P&G to make this decision? The misogyny on the Imus show was at least as bad as the racism from the bits of the Imus show that I saw. Great thing about the internet is reading other people's accounts of the Imus show the last week. His big thing was ranking on "fat" women and his definition of fat women was most women. Was P&G unaware of this network they're sponsoring putting on programming that attacked most of their customers? Its really strange that it took so long to get this guy off TV.

Posted by: Karen | Apr 15, 2007 1:59:23 PM

NTodd, thank you for seeing through to the heart of this matter from the beginning. Benj is absolutely correct: The problem is not only what was said, but the fact that there is a huge, solidified, corporate platform for such talk being spewed daily, i.e. Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, etc. This is hate speech, not free speech, and the difference needs to be highlighted.

Posted by: Green | Apr 15, 2007 2:00:49 PM

Umm, Frank? Imus used the term 'jigaboo' himself in the same 'joke'. Read the transcript, and then apologize to Donna Brazile.

Posted by: ignoreland | Apr 15, 2007 3:46:48 PM

Okay, this is getting way too complicated.

It's all right to use insulting invective if you're a rapper but not if you're an aging radio guy?

You can be anti-semitic in parody but not if you're getting pulled over?

You can use the n word on South Park but not if you're an angry sitcom actor?

Black comics can use the n word but white comics can't? What about Lenny Bruce or Carlos Mencia? Can a Latino use it?

Don't you think this is all getting a little ridiculous? We either declare certain invective as intolerable in all situations or we let people use it and judge them on their individual merits.

Me, I'll fall on the side of unfettered speech. Doesn't mean I have to tune in or go to the movie or listen to the song but I'm not going to support you when you say the person has no right say it and should be banned. I'll just say, "What a jerk" and walk away. Somehow my tender little feelings can take the insults.

Posted by: not the senator | Apr 15, 2007 4:25:59 PM

not the senator - no, you're just making it too fucking complicated so you can give Imus a pass. In other words, you a goddamned bigot enabler and can eat shit and die.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 4:29:03 PM

Rich says Imus' firing for his slurs will have a chilling effect... and then offers, as an "example", the case Bill Maher losing sponsors 6 years ago for making a truthful point about 9/11 using perfectly civil language? Does not compute.

Oh, and if this might somehow lead to Ann Coulter losing gigs (altho it won't), well, bring it on.

Posted by: Maximus | Apr 15, 2007 4:37:56 PM

I think your use of a death threat against me is way over the line. It has ruined my day and damaged me. You should be banned from the internet.

Posted by: not the senator | Apr 15, 2007 4:38:03 PM

I don't really care that mucn about Imus... but I nominate Atrios for "Non-Wanker of the Day" for his patriotic linkage.

Posted by: hutchie6 | Apr 15, 2007 4:43:24 PM

Maximus - great catch.

not the senator - you are the stupidest motherfucker this side of Imus.

hutch - Atrios will be my Wanker of the Century once again, starting tomorrow.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 5:24:09 PM

YOU KNOW WHO REALLY GOT LYNCHED?

BLACK PEOPLE, WITH REAL ROPES.

AND AFTER THESE BLACK PEOPLE WERE "LYNCHED" THEY DID NOT HAVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THE BANK LIKE IMUS.

I LIKE RICH, BUT ACCOUNTABILITY IS COMING TO THE MEDIA AND THEY ARE TERRIFIED THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE TO EARN THEIR MILLIONS INSTEAD OF PHONING IT IN.

Posted by: feckless | Apr 15, 2007 5:33:59 PM

Imus is so last week. Who's next? Ann Coulter? Before everyone runs her out of town I hope someone at least snatches her leather miniskirt away so we can all see what color her ballbag pubes are.

Oh yeah,... the Frank Rich column? He and others who are half-heartedly defending Imus are just trying to stave off the imagined firing squad they all fear they might face.

Posted by: Philip | Apr 15, 2007 6:01:44 PM

feckless - afuckingmen. I expect the use of "lynching" from the likes of, say...Mike Barnicle, but Rich? Jesus fucking christ.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 6:03:49 PM

This column by Rich seems very confused. Take what Rich seems to be saying about what happened to Bill Maher following the comments about the 9-11 hijackers that were made on Politically Incorrect. Yet Rich made no public comment during the time this was actually happening, as far as I could discover. I don't have a subscription to Times Select, but I read through the descriptions of the relevant archived columns and it sure doesn't look like Rich wrote anything like "Piling on Bill Maher" then.

Posted by: Aunt Deb | Apr 15, 2007 6:07:06 PM

NTodd: " Maybe Cohen hasn't done a Jewish character because that's, like, his own self and he'd rather mock other things like, say, anti-Semitism with the Running of the Jews"

And maybe it's because he's an orthodox jew and a Zionist and he's unwilling to question his own assumptions. In most places on our planet the thought that I might have a "right of return" to a place some of my ancestors left 2000 years ago is considered at the very least debatable, and often simply as racist. I'd go for the latter.
Your glib response is something only an American could come up with. It still shocked me, if only in the sense of being surprised. You do know that Ali G is an arab parody, don't you?

Posted by: Seth Edenbaum | Apr 15, 2007 6:35:02 PM

Your glib response is something only an American could come up with. It still shocked me, if only in the sense of being surprised. You do know that Ali G is an arab parody, don't you?

Glib? GLIB?! Yes, I do know Ali G is an Arab parody. And your comment about "right of return" confuses me, since it's generally used to describe Palestinian rights in modern Israel.

Regardless, it has not one goddamned thing to do with Imus' remarks, nor Rich's buddybuddy coziness with his white, patriarchal, bigoted asshole.

And if you think I'm some stupid American who doesn't follow the I/P conflict or something, you really should shut the fuck up and suck on a straight razor. TIA.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 7:11:19 PM

Wow
"And your comment about "right of return" confuses me, since it's generally used to describe Palestinian rights in modern Israel."
Someone get me a drink.
Palestinian claims of a right of return weren't even discussed in the country until recently, and the term referred to Israeli Law.

"And if you think I'm some stupid American who doesn't follow the I/P conflict or something..."

You've just convinced me I was right to wonder.

Posted by: seth edenbaum | Apr 15, 2007 7:33:28 PM

On this whole issue, I'm with Malcolm X. Anyone who is concerned about their community or their peers or those who share the same skin colour as themselves ought to be more concerned about THAT community and not so much what some old white guy says on his radio show. Not to mention the atrocious state of the "poetry" of hip-hop, let Imus call you nappy-headed hos in a 10 second off-the-cuff remark and then ignore it or better yet, don't listen to him in the first place. If you want to better your situation then you ought to sort out your own problems internally. One way would be by influencing "your" own culture by not buying Snoop Dogg or 50 Cent albums. If you think that getting Don Imus off the air (which I suppose wasn't altogether such a bad thing) will reduce infant mortality, prevent crime and generally make life better for the black community, you are abysmally wrong. If Malcolm and Martin Luther King bacame outraged about what their local radio stations were broadcasting then perhaps America would still be segregated.

Posted by: Dan Craig | Apr 15, 2007 7:41:24 PM

You've just convinced me I was right to wonder.

Bully for you. You're more than welcome to go somewhere else, you nostril-raping fucktard.

If you think that getting Don Imus off the air (which I suppose wasn't altogether such a bad thing) will reduce infant mortality, prevent crime and generally make life better for the black community, you are abysmally wrong.

Well hello, Mister Strawman! Need a light?

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 8:04:54 PM

"nostril-raping fucktard."
Everyone has blind-spots, it's only human; that's why moralists are worse than schmucks.
What a country ey?

Posted by: seth edenbaum | Apr 15, 2007 9:50:46 PM

Well...if they have nostrils big enough, I'm sure you have blindspots...

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 10:02:32 PM

keep digging son, you'll be out soon.

Posted by: s.e. | Apr 15, 2007 10:04:07 PM

keep digging son, you'll be out soon.

I fucking hate goddamned latrine duty.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 10:09:35 PM

Actually, getting Don Imus off the air will reduce infant mortality. It worked in Sweden. You can look it up!

Oh, and I take back part of my earlier generosity to Frank Rich's column. Anyone who uses the term "media lynching" for what happened to Imus is a legitimate candidate for Wanker of the Day, any day. Because clearly, what happened to poor Imus -- and remember, if if happened to Imus it could happen to any of us -- was more like a "media disemboweling followed by a pouring of media molten lead into the media bowel cavity."

Posted by: Michael Bérubé | Apr 15, 2007 10:29:19 PM

Bérubé, you should get a blog.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 10:34:17 PM

It happened to Bill Maher; but yeah, 'lynching" was a bit much given the context.
I prefer a policy of speech vs speech, and making it more difficult for mainstream types to appear on the show to a full fledged call to end it. Bleed the pig, don't kill it: a better strategy. The argument that he "hurt" people is absurd. He offended them, and that's not the same thing. But what do I know? I say zionism is racism.
But I'm sure as hell sick of liberals who howl when you show they're not saints.

Posted by: s.e. | Apr 15, 2007 10:44:08 PM

I say zionism is racism.

We're not that far off, motherfucker. I think Israeli policy is racist. I also think that Israel has a right to exist, as does the Palestinian "nation" (what I would call народ if I were Russian). Go figure.

But I'm sure as hell sick of liberals who howl when you show they're not saints.

Dude, you might consider paying attention.

NOW will you please fuck off and die, you goatblowing nardfluke with a penchant for ignorant pedantry?

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 11:03:56 PM

What's weird to me about the Imus thing is that, why now? Yes what he said was awful, but why all the fuss now when nobody said anything before? Nobody cares for the longest time, and then - boom - suddenly, they're all shocked, shocked that Imus is a racist, and by gum it won't be tolerated!

What makes this worse than what Limbaugh, Malkin, Savage, etc. say on a regular basis? Why don't those guys lose their sponsors?

Is this all about lucrative televised athletics and a fear by NBC of losing out on televised NCAA games or something? Or a fear that their relationships with black athletes in all sports, and hence their access, would be jeopardized? Limbaugh got axed pretty damn quickly when he made racist comments during his short-lived football announcer career, maybe this is really all about the Benjamins...

Posted by: DanM | Apr 15, 2007 11:05:46 PM

Dude, please... dude.
"I think Israeli policy is racist. I also think that Israel has a right to exist"
Which policies? Do you think I have a "right" to go there and settle? Maybe move into a subsidized apartment? Do I have more of a "right" than my next door neighbor who can't return to the home he was born in? That's been Israeli policy since 1948.

But: "Fuck all you people who think there's nothing sinister about 'pride in your race'."
YEAH! My fondness for the music of James Brown always carries with it a deep and ironic awareness. I dance ironically, rilly! While my mind drifts over memories of my parent's refusal to store guns for the Panthers in our basement (the feds were watching the house [true!])
But no! You're talking about Jewish pride right? The Stern Gang! The Irgun! But no.. you're not... but...
Did you know Elijah Muhammad said "We are the black fascists?" Just like Yitzak Shamir! Except Shamir he was a Jew. Except...
Your confusion confuses me. I'm sorry.
Get a mind to go with the attitude. In the meantime your moralizing oversimplifications and your computer programmer's way with the english language is beginning to piss me off.
Bigtime

Posted by: s.e. | Apr 15, 2007 11:30:50 PM

The Dude: It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...
Donny: I am the walrus.
The Dude: You know what I'm trying to say...
Walter Sobchak: That fucking bitch...
The Dude: Oh yeah!
Donny: I am the walrus.
Walter Sobchak: Shut the fuck up, Donny! V.I. Lenin. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov!
Donny: What the fuck is he talking about, Dude?

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 11:31:39 PM

Which policies? Do you think I have a "right" to go there and settle? Maybe move into a subsidized apartment? Do I have more of a "right" than my next door neighbor who can't return to the home he was born in? That's been Israeli policy since 1948.

What's really great about your argument is that you acknowledge the issue of Palestinian Right of Return totally without trying to score any points politically.

But no! You're talking about Jewish pride right? The Stern Gang! The Irgun! But no.. you're not... but...

I especially love it when people talk opaquely and never actually state, say...a position and instead lob bullshit strawmen and red herrings in lieu of actual arguments.

Tell ya what: I'll give you a platform for whatever the fuck you want to say in a dedicated thread if you will tell us all exactly what pisses you off about Borat, Imus and Israel. Given that I've argued myriad times for balanced policy in the ME, I'm sure that gives me a pass to call you a fucktarded dickwad because, after all, Borat did the whole Running of the Jews thing and Arabs never mock Jews. Or something. I'm still fuzzy on a few of your more salient points.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 15, 2007 11:43:24 PM

Lets cut to the chase kiddo, since you got the anger and not the argument, I'll give you both:
Tell me the odds that you're one of those sensitive liberal men who calls himself a feminist [translate "counter-dominant" for me] whose wife left him because he's an overbearing schmuck.

You've made every other mistake so far- overshot every other mark- that I'd put some money on this one. I've called you "dude" and you've called me "nostril-raping fucktard." and "goatblowing nardfluke"[?] so I'd say I have the right to return the favor, in language both of us understand: you're a sad little fuck.

good night and good luck

Posted by: se | Apr 15, 2007 11:55:44 PM

Tell me the odds that you're one of those sensitive liberal men who calls himself a feminist [translate "counter-dominant" for me] whose wife left him because he's an overbearing schmuck.

Nope, I asked her to leave because she was ambivalent about a lot of things, including her desire to pursue a totally new career, and rather than my being overbearing, I was the exact opposite. Nice try though, Krauthammer.

I've called you "dude" and you've called me "nostril-raping fucktard." and "goatblowing nardfluke"[?] so I'd say I have the right to return the favor, in language both of us understand: you're a sad little fuck.

Ah, so, you're not really interested in Zionism or anything. You just pose as a 'seth' and say funny words in the hopes I would call you a nostril-raping fucktard.

Well, I appreciate the traffic. Don't forget to tip your waitress and buy some prints in the gift shop, you ignorant, trolling, shit-brained, roach-fucking asshole with no redeeming social qualities.

Oh, and who's the sadder littler fuck: the sad little fuck, or the sad little fuck you calls him 'a sad little fuck' on his blog?

QED

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 16, 2007 12:20:16 AM

I like Frank Rich, he writes pretty strong commentary more often than not, and he called out Bushco for the delused corporate thieves they are quite some time back.

I don't quite see the wankery, sorry.

And he's right, Imus firing will put a chill in those who've been milking the "controversial" line for years, the fake outrageous entertainers/writers/comics/pundits what have you, the pop culture folks who are in it forthe money as much as the biting satire.

Come to think of it, that sounds like a good thing.

Posted by: Duckman GR | Apr 16, 2007 2:21:27 AM

Wank wank wank black rappers wank wankety wankety media lynching wank wank chilling effect on wankers wank wank al sharpton wank wank wank imus will be homeless now wank wank wank

Posted by: Douglas Watts | Apr 16, 2007 5:33:42 AM

Did I forget to say wank?

Wank.

Posted by: Douglas Watts | Apr 16, 2007 8:02:50 AM

Oh, and who's the sadder littler fuck?:
The man who responds to criticism with abuse and nothing else.
"Ah, so, you're not really interested in Zionism or anything." And you say that based on what?
You're full of self-righteous anger. Your own moral superiority is more important to you than the issues: the only point I tried to make, and as you would say: QED.
And "counter-dominant" goes with "Tom Green-esque" and "I asked her to leave."
I take back my comment about boorish pseudo-feminism. I can't be right about everything.

Posted by: se | Apr 16, 2007 10:37:55 AM

Wow, se, that's an impressive Fristian diagnosis. I'm glad you came here to set me straight.

Next time if you want something other than abuse, try actual criticism instead of gotcha games. Zionism? Imus? Goodbye, Mister Non Sequitur. Enjoy your own moral superiority. FOAD.

Posted by: NTodd | Apr 16, 2007 1:50:48 PM

People are assholes, and I'd rather they be assholes in public than only in private.

Of course! How dare CBS violate Imus' inalienable right to be an asshole on their payroll! This is supposed to be a free country!

I'm sure Imus can find some other "public" medium through which to be an asshole, if that makes you feel any better. It's not like he's destitute or financially ruined.

Posted by: Ferruge | Apr 16, 2007 2:01:40 PM

Too many incidents, too close in time. A big part of Imus' problem came from the fact that his show had had real problems in this area in the very recent past. One sidekick was forced off the show for similar comments, and another was reprimanded. In the wake of those incidents, Imus visited us with "nappy headed ho's" and his sponsors said they didn't want their brands associated with this sort of thing.

Imus, to his credit, never tried to pass the buck; he took responsibility for what he said.

But the advertiser revolt is what brought him down. If they had stood behind him, the networks would have too.

Two cheers to the advertisers!

Posted by: zak822 | Apr 16, 2007 2:12:04 PM

And regarding this...

the world would be much better if we killed all the people who wear funny hats

What about Rob Pongi and that guy from 30 Rock? I would not want to know a world w/out those two guys.

She-e-e-e-it, as Rear Admiral TARO Pongi, I wear a funny hats to bed.
See:
http://doiop.com/Taro_hats


Posted by: Rear Admiral TARO Pongi | May 17, 2007 8:38:36 AM

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