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Thursday, September 29, 2005
I Have Nothing Against People Being Bigoted, But Do They Have To Flaunt It?
[I]f the Republican-Majority-Leader-to-be was preempted because he was gay, that is real news. I haven't heard the commentary yet, but several people have reported to me that CNN's Wolf Blitzer stated that Dreier was blocked at the last moment because he was pro-choice, from Southern California, and had "other issues" -- the last part stated in a low and halting voice.
If true, what is that about, Wolf? If Dreier -- who is one of the most powerful and, frankly, capable members of House Republican leadership -- Chairman of the powerful Rules Committee -- was stopped from stepping into the indicted Tom DeLay's seat because he was gay -- can we finally get beyond the blogs and onto the pages of the New York Times and Washington Post about this real news?
Dreier was blocked because he has a long-term, loving relationship with someone of the same sex. This has been documented on many fronts and is widely known by members of Dreier's own caucus. If the reality of this blocked Dreier's ascension, then the news has a duty not to keep this matter hidden.
I attended a forum about sexuality and stuff (our campus having just experienced some queer-baiting incidents) we had at Colby my freshman year (I think spring of '88). A bunch of icky gays were on a discussion panel in Lovejoy 101, an auditorium-esque classroom where you'd take stuff like General Chem and other survey courses, and where the Student Association showed movies on weekends, etc.
Anyhoo, one of the panel members was a gay black man (I'll call him T) who lived in the senior quad across from my dorm room where I used to hang out alot--he was incredibly funny and a great actor, under whom I was understudy in the only play I ever acted in at the college level. T was not a super flamer, but he was definitely out and even the most hetero person in the world would probably have their gaydar set off. I'll never forget an exchange he had with somebody who was generally very reasonable and non-bigoted.
The dude in the audience (I'll call him M) began by saying he liked T a lot--he really did, and I can vouch for that--and admitted that homosexuality made him a little uncomfortable because it wasn't his cuppa, but he was cool with it. M's question: "why do you have to flaunt it?"
T observed that heteros "flaunt it" all the time. He'd seen M and lots of other heteros kissing their boy/girlfriends in public, talking about their sexual exploits, wearing clothes designed to attract the opposite sex. So why can't he kiss a boy in public, talk about getting laid last weekend, and wear a little leather and chains?
I admit that before then, I hadn't really thought about it all that much. One of my best friends (giggle) wouldn't come out to me until the following year, I wouldn't start running around with all the out queers until well after that, and while I hung out with T a lot (heh, he's the one who introduced me to The Cure) I was more interested in the philosophy of nature and god and government than issues of sexuality at the time. But that evening really made me aware of just how bigotry "whispers".
Fast forward to September, 2005, and a queer-assed fag from Fagville is living in the closet, sorta, with his boyfriend and is reportedly going to ascend to a hugely powerful position of national significance. The queers are happy because "one of their own" will be in charge. The irony, hypocritisy and bigotry is not ignored--perhaps it's an opportunity to stick one in the eye of the Dobson crowd.
So poor delicate flower Kevin whines about making sexuality an issue, or something like that. What, do we not celebrate the first black person to be elected to Congress, or the first woman? The hooting and hollering is not about homosexuality per se and certainly not about it "being sordid". It's that a man belonging to a particular minority--one that his own party goes out of its way to legally constrain, implicitly (and often explicitly) condemn and otherwise squash--was being elevated to a position of power.
Yes, "some people" made some rather sordid jokes about it. FLOOR ACTION. Gay agenda. Toasters. Teeheehee! What better way to rub it in, as it were, than to take that stereotype and, well...flaunt it?
Now that it's rather widely known that Dreier is gay, and that might have played a part in his being passed over as Majority Leader, it keeps the message alive: the GOP doesn't care about black people, gay people, or muppets (obscure reference alert). And that is the truth, isn't it?
ntodd
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Comments
Now that it's rather widely known that Dreier is gay, and that might have played a part in his being passed over as Majority Leader, it keeps the message alive: the GOP doesn't care about black people, gay people, or muppets (obscure reference alert).
If this guy is gay (I don't know anything about him), he's already a gay man in a position of power in the Republican party. But I guess that doesn't count for anything.
This would be an interesting discussion, if anyone could actually draw a link between Dreier's alleged sexual orientation and him not getting picked. I haven't seen any evidence of that, just speculation. Have you?
Posted by: Hubris | Sep 29, 2005 11:13:40 AM
And there are already blacks in Congress. Point is that Majority Leader is a big step. I suspect we'd also celebrate when the first black woman ascended to the position.
As for evidence, of course not. For all we know it's because Hastert is an emasculated Speaker and can't fight the DeLay crowd. It is telling that Dreier's fortunes changed rapidly, and that Wolfie mentions "other issues". It would certainly be a good discussion, and given that this is only Day Two, maybe the fact that people are talking about Dreier's sexuality openly and ignoring Kevin's admonishments, we'll get that discussion.
Posted by: NTodd | Sep 29, 2005 11:25:43 AM
Just think if Dreier's handsome face and hard work could be used to show those who are afraid of homosexuality what gays would be like working in the government?
I don't care that he's gay. The fact that he's in lockstep with the Bush agenda is the creepy thing, and that he votes against himself to further gay-bashing is ugly and hypocritical.
Posted by: ellroon | Sep 29, 2005 2:16:25 PM
But Ellroon, he's...GAY!!!!!!!
Posted by: NTodd | Sep 29, 2005 4:51:29 PM
It is alleged that he is gay. I've never seen anything remotely like definitive proof. To the best of my recollection he's never admitted it, and I've never seen any compromising photos of him in bed with another guy.
Posted by: Michael | Sep 29, 2005 10:59:12 PM
Uh oh. This means that every person running for office will have to submit a photo of himself or herself in bed with declared spouse or significant other or interested party. I mean, how can they prove that they are not gay? It's like proving you have no WMDs.
Ergo, all people who run for office are whores. Prove me wrong.
Posted by: ellroon | Sep 30, 2005 2:01:06 AM
Ergo, all people who run for office are whores. Prove me wrong.
It's a non sequitur. Your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from your premises. I happen to think it's mostly a true one, but you can't get there from the premises you adduced.
< /logician>
Posted by: Michael | Sep 30, 2005 9:49:40 AM
Michael - true, it's only an allegation. Blogactive "outed" him a while back, as did some other pubs, but he refuses to discuss it--Signorile pressed him directly on the issue.
ellroon - just change your conclusion to be "all people who run for office are gay".
Posted by: NTodd | Sep 30, 2005 10:50:01 AM
Ah, you guys want logic. I was just following the Rovian Tactical Book on Making Friends and Influencing People to Do as You Tell Them:
You have a dog.
Your dog is ugly.
Ergo you are a Democrat.
Posted by: ellroon | Sep 30, 2005 3:13:08 PM
I am hot.
Fire is hot.
Therefore, I'm on fire.
Posted by: NTodd | Sep 30, 2005 3:52:26 PM
Not only that, NTodd, but what about Arnold's veto today?! Look people, Wolf's report of "other issues" could have been something OTHER than being gay (if, in fact, he is - not that there's anything wrong with that ; )
Posted by: Charlie | Sep 30, 2005 4:06:43 PM
Wow, you wield a mean Occam's Razor, Chuckles. What does Arnie's veto of a gay marriage bill today have to do with what the reported "other issues", other than showing that the GOP hates gays?
Posted by: NTodd | Sep 30, 2005 6:41:15 PM
Since it is theoretically possible the "other issues" quoted by Wolf above meant something besides Drier being a homosexual, my Arnold comment was NOT related specifically to that - I wanted to make sure you were not missing Arnold's veto in this context, because I don't think anyone can reasonably call him a bigot, can you?
Here's my definition of "bigot":
Irrational intolerance of those who differ from your own group, religion, race, or politics.
Let me know if you are operating under a different definition.
BTW: the GOP does not hate gays - there's even a Log Cabin contingent welcome in our Big Tent - opposition to gay marriage, as Arnold showed, does not necessarily equal "hate." In fact, it could even be considered LOVING to want homosexuals to see that the wages of sin is death. Sorry for any other misunderstandings there.
Posted by: Charlie | Sep 30, 2005 7:29:18 PM
Yes, Chuckles, "other issues" could mean lots of things, which is why I've continued to say 'if'. All the pieces put together do seem to lead to an unsettling conclusion. Not something that would hold up in a court of law, of course, but certainly in the court of public opinion.
Your definition of bigot is the same as mine, and thus, you and Arnold and the GOP are bigots. You are irrationally intolerant of homosexuals and your judgemental comment about the "wages of sin" is proof positive. Arnold's attempts to justify his actions fall flat coming from somebody who supposedly supports gay rights--like there's a "correct way" to ensure civil rights. If he cared, he would actively work to do the right thing, not passively sit there claiming his hands are tied.
Posted by: NTodd | Oct 1, 2005 10:47:03 AM
Faith is Jesus Christ is "irrational" in your opinion?! All Christians then, called to love God and their neighbors as themselves, are "bigots" in your opinion? That's amazing. How about Bill Bennett - he's a "bigot" for simply asking hypothetical questions now:
http://www.bennettmornings.com/pg/jsp/charts/streamingAudioMaster.jsp?dispid=303&headerDest=/site/preview?pid=31025
Posted by: Charlie | Oct 1, 2005 12:33:45 PM
Faith is Jesus Christ is "irrational" in your opinion?!
Yup.
All Christians then, called to love God and their neighbors as themselves, are "bigots" in your opinion?
Nope.
Only the ones who work to deny civil rights to American citizens using the same faux Biblical justifications that propped up slavery and Jim Crow, and denied women their rights to equal political participation and control over their own bodies. I'll note that many Christians, including Quakers, do not share your bigoted beliefs.
How about Bill Bennett - he's a "bigot" for simply asking hypothetical questions now
Posted by: NTodd | Oct 1, 2005 2:07:18 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on the Christian question then. Moving on . . .
From the Desk of William J. Bennett September 30, 2005
"On Wednesday, a caller to my radio show proposed the idea that one good argument for the pro-life position would be that if we didn't have abortions, Social Security would be solvent. I stated my doubts about such a thesis, as well as my opposition to such a form of argument (the audio of the call is available at my Website: bennettmornings.com).
"I then stated that such extrapolations of this argument can cut both ways, and cited the current bestseller, Freakonomics, which discusses the authors' thesis that abortion reduces crime.
"Then, putting my philosophy professor's hat on, I went on to reveal the limitations of such arguments by showing the absurdity in another such argument, along the same lines. I entertained what law school professors call 'the Socratic method' and what I would hope good social science professors still use in their seminars. In so doing, I suggested a hypothetical analogy while at the same time saying the proposition I was using about blacks and abortion was 'impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible,' just to ensure those who would have any doubt about what they were hearing, or for those who tuned in to the middle of the conversation.
"The issues of crime and race have been on many people's minds, and tongues, for the past month or so--in light of the situation in New Orleans; and the issues of race, crime, and abortion are well aired and ventilated in articles, the academy, the think tank community, and public policy. Indeed the whole issue of crime and race is not new in social science, nor popular literature. One of the authors of Freakonomics, himself, had an extended exchange on the discussion of these issues on the Internet some years back--which was also much debated in the think tank community in Washington.
"A thought experiment about public policy, on national radio, should not have received the condemnations it has. Anyone paying attention to this debate should be offended by those who have selectively quoted me, distorted my meaning, and taken out of context the dialogue I engaged in this week. Such distortions from 'leaders' of organizations and parties is a disgrace not only to the organizations and institutions they serve, but to the First Amendment.
"In sum, let me reiterate what I had hoped my long career had already established: that I renounce all forms of bigotry--and that my record in trying to provide opportunities for, as well as save the lives of, minorities in this country stands up just fine."
http://www.bennettmornings.com/agnosticchart?charttype=minichart&chartID=11&formatID=1&size=3&useMiniChartID=true&destinationpage=/pg/jsp/general/featured.jsp#0
Posted by: Charlie | Oct 1, 2005 2:30:50 PM
I guess Dear Leader was wrong in criticizing Bill, eh?
Posted by: NTodd | Oct 1, 2005 2:56:21 PM
I don't disagree that Bill should not have said it because the PC crowd would use it against him no matter how true it is.
Posted by: Charlie | Oct 1, 2005 3:21:11 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on the Christian question then.
What do we disagree on? That there are Christians who don't believe as you do?
I don't disagree that Bill should not have said it because the PC crowd would use it against him no matter how true it is.
Yeah. And come to think of it, if we aborted all Christian babies, we'd have less anti-Semitism.
Posted by: NTodd | Oct 2, 2005 11:34:08 AM
I will note, parenthetically, that is PC to say something like that. But, yes, given your broad definition of "Christian" that would be statistically true - all other things being equal. That's where Bill Bennett's point rings true: it would also be "impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible" to abort all Christian babies in some misguided effort to reduce anti-Semitism.
Given Christ's definition of "Christian" your statement would not be true. For instance, I am not anti-Semitic, and I doubt anyone who has repented of his sin, put his faith in Jesus Christ, and loves his neighor as himself can be. That is the Christian question we will have to agree to disagree on.
Posted by: Charlie | Oct 2, 2005 12:03:57 PM
I will note, parenthetically, that is PC to say something like that.
Dude, you are so fighting the last culture war. There is no "political correctness", and arguably never was, save a bogeyman in the mind of Pat Buchanan and his followers. And even if it did exist, PC-ism was not about tearing down Christianity. You fail on two counts.
yes, given your broad definition of "Christian" that would be statistically true - all other things being equal. That's where Bill Bennett's point rings true: it would also be "impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible" to abort all Christian babies in some misguided effort to reduce anti-Semitism.
The problem: aborting black babies to reduce crime is not only morally reprehensible, but the hypothetical ignores how our racist social structures create conditions in which those black babies MIGHT grow up to contribute to the crime rate. My speculation was just as reprehensible as Bennett's.
That is the Christian question we will have to agree to disagree on.
I suspect that was not the Christian question you had in mind previously. Tell me, can anybody who has a different belief set than yours be a Christian in your mind? Catholics? Episcopalians? Quakers?
Posted by: NTodd | Oct 2, 2005 2:16:37 PM
Any Catholic, Episcopalian, or Quaker who has repented of his sin, put his faith in Jesus Christ, and loves his neighor as himself is a "Christian" in my Book (see, e.g. John 1:12-13, 3:16, 14:6, Romans 3:23, 6:23, 10:9, and 1 John 1:9).
Posted by: Charlie | Oct 2, 2005 3:16:53 PM
As I thought. Shorter Charlie: you aren't a Christian if you don't believe exactly as I do. Shocking.
Posted by: NTodd | Oct 2, 2005 4:49:01 PM
And not exactly Christian. Equally shocking.
Posted by: Michael | Oct 2, 2005 10:14:07 PM
















